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[quote]I'm interested in getting into the sign business. I'm looking for feedback on how the sign industry may evolve over the next 10 years (technological, business practices etc)[/quote]
why? your background? evolve? bah degrade is more like it.
every meatball buys their way in why not you....go for it.
there is no easy answer.... so stop looking. This country has a way of "dumbin' down" everything....and it costs EVERYONE.
Doomed, Doomed I tell ya....
Have a nice day. Sell hotdogs it's alot easier......
i was born into the sign industry. my dad started this business in 1952 and i have been involved since i was a kid in the 1960's. started full time after i finished with college in 1983 and been doing it ever since.
the business is not worth having anymore. the only way a startup can make it is in the zippy sign market. there is one of those on every corner now and as fast as a new one opens another closes. a 2k plotter and a storefront does not make a successful business. not saying it can't be done but it won't be easy.
the business of the franchises seems to be selling franchises not signs. i have seen what they charge to buy in and it seems crazy to pay all the franchise fees, percentages of gross and advertising fees to me. that much money would buy some good equipment.
the only thing saving us is a paid for building and equipment along with the ability to do what the zippy shops can't do. we have a full service shop with a metal working facility, woodworking, paint, cad/cam router and about everything you can imagine.
today we installed a 30k lighted sign/led message panel and those are the jobs that keep us above water. the ones that the small guys can't touch. if you want to make real money in the sign business you are going to have to be able to invest upwards of a million bucks in equipment just to be a full service shop.
you either have to stay small (you will make a living but not much better) or spend a lot of money to do big work. if you had to make payments on all the equipment and the building interest and bank payments would eat your lunch during the slow times. if you have enough money to get in correctly out of pocket then put the cash in a 5% savings account and get a job at wal-mart.
of course the sign business is like any other. if you work hard and do good work anything is possible. if you have to have a paycheck every friday to pay your bills at the house then you will be lucky to make it 90 days.
michael
I think that while certain products of the sign industry will become more and more commodified, the really profitable and challenging projects will never be because they require thinking, experience and the ability to problem-solve. I don't think one will necessarily need to invest ALOT of money into expensive equipment; there is plenty of equipment out there already to be rented or subbed (I could be wrong though.) What is really starting to lack is the entry of talented younger people who are willing to learn the trade and all its little details. It's ironic, cause it doesn't seem like some of my friends who are working at things like tech support are very happy in it; I daresay they'd rather be welding or wiring :P.
I don't think that design requires any less creativity if done on a computer... it just requires less work to put your vision on paper. Perhaps the difference is that now the modern style is minimalist, not ornate like in previous ages. Also, the speed at which businesses change sort of drives signmaking that doesn't allow alot of time for craftsmanship; after all, why invest alot of money into a sign that is built to last forever when you don't even know if you will own the company in 5 years (losing it or selling it.) I don't think it is that clients don't care but that they have many other things to spend their investment on. It doesn't mean there isn't talent to be applied into how to make sign FIXTURES that are easily changed as business needs change (it's a crying shame that electronic message boards get a bad rap.) I think there is a great need for people who can think in terms of integrated systems of signs, websites, printed materials... as well as managing permanent sign fixtures and leasing.
I'm starting to ramble a bit here...
The sign industry...
The more buttons you see on your Bmw in the years to come are in direct corelation to the ease of someone being able to make a sign...
Old pro's are out of demand & it's a market for the new age designer & cheap labor.
About the only part of the sign industry that has nothing to be ashamed of would be the Vehicle Wrap industry as it demands skills and talents that you can't find on a regular basis... And even this has started to go down the drain as more and more company's ie: Aurora Graphics, are introducing pre-made graphics on CD's & you begin to see the same wrap driving down the street with someone elses name on it...
The sign Industry & all other industry's that require any specialized skill are advancing in ways that are in direct correlation to the diminishing intelectual capacity of mankind as a whole....
Enjoy!
[quote]The sign Industry & all other industry's that require any specialized skill are advancing in ways that are in direct correlation to the diminishing intelectual capacity of mankind as a whole.... [/quote]
Yes, well said..... we are all doomed. :)
Most established "OLDSCHOOL" signers will say nothing but negative comments to a new comer only simply because they feel threatened by new comers.
Afraid of taking there money and because they "DO IT THE OLD WAY" they feel like the "NEW WAY" is rolling in on there grounds.
IT'S CALLED change, every trade has gone through it. you don't think the auto workers were furious when the robots took over. its change and we all have to accept it, things get easier and business don't want to pay for TOP dollar designers or signers anymore it seems.
My hats go off to the real artists though and the guys who have been in it a long time. they have definitely paved the roads for the new breed.
Threatened by the "newcomers"...LMFAO!
What in the hell are you babbling about.
I have trained many of these so-called new comers over the years and am certainly NOT intimidated by them or any others for that matter.
These new comers you refer to are wet behind the ears and clueless.
There is no substitute for real life experience.
Or would the new comers be the robots that are coming to replace us?
By the way obduh...freaking hysterical...I literally laughed out loud at that one!
cd,
i am actually a little tickled by your post myself. "new breed" or "old school" doesn't matter. what matters is quality construction and attractive layout. i will go ahead and invite some flameage. i would bet money that 30% of the current "sign shops" in the market at present couldn't do both a good layout and manufacture a well made sign if their lives depended on it.
you can tell the market strategy of the industry by what the suppliers have on their shelves. 6 and 8 year vinyl has been replaced by 3 and 4 year calendered. raw mdo has been replaced by "prefinished". most signs are made out of aluma-core, corregated plastic or aluminum that the shop owner had to have precut by their supplier.
my comments refer to the state of the overall industry. in the "old days" the average shop had experienced employees with competent skills. it seems like today, the average shop has some monkey with a copy of corel draw and the cheapest plotter they could mail order, cutting the cheapest vinyl they could buy.
when i was growing up i never heard of a sign shop going out of business. occasionally somebody would retire or die but that was not very often. now days i see shops closing their doors monthly if not weekly just in north georgia. that is your clue right there. as in any industry what matters in the long run of a successful business is sound business principles and a decent product at a FAIR price. cheap doesn't pay the bills decades down the road.
in the process of doing cheap work and heading for the poor house, all of these insta-signmakers are downgrading the reputation and pricing schedule of the entire industry. i have managed to adapt as the industry has changed. but it has required spending money and doing what the small shops can't do.
michael
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I've been in this business for 25 years and I'm on my way out of it now. I have watched an industry I loved go slowly into the toilet for the last fifteen years. I have seen company owners trivialize the efforts of craftsmen and artisans to the point that there is so little creativity left in this industry, it's sad. Designers used to actually have creativity. Now they have Corel and Photoshop.
It used to be that Fabricators took great pride in creating a quality product and made sure it was done right before it went out the door. Now most companies I know of buy junk built at some wholesale joint and slap their name on it because they say the customer demands such crap. I sat in a company meeting where the head of the Sales department stood there in front of the entire company that "Most business aren't going to be there (in business) more than five years anyway and they just don't care what their sign looks like, or about quality".
Painters used to be artists, who meticulously masked and painted the graphics on a sign face in any color the customer asked for. Now faces have vinyl applied in any color the supplier has available, with a life expectancy of between two and ten years, depending on the price the company owner will pay for quality, or not.
Install crews used to be well trained and there was an apprentice program very similar to what electricians, plumbers and other trades had. If you worked hard and learned everything you needed to, you became a journeyman and took over a truck after four years, then you kept on learning every single day after that. I recently came across an couple of guys out on a truck putting neon letters on a motel. These guys had a total of six months experience BETWEEN THEM!
I have witnessed the deterioration of a once proud and honorable profession. I have seen more and more regulations enacted each year to prevent the kind of stupidity that causes fire inspectors and insurance companies to declare neon to be an unsafe product which causes too many fires now, after it has been in use in this country for nearly a century, safely. Regulation that were never needed until the sign industry stopped policing itself and became more concerned with bottom line profit margins than being a craftsman industry.
I can't answer your question directly because the slide down the tubes is reaching geometric proportions now. I don't know where this business will be in ten years, but I for one am not stickin' around to find out! God Be With You.