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Had a developer that we typically do onsite illuminated directory signs,channel letters, box signs, etc. for, ask me on short notice to do 2-4'x 8', 4-color S.F. sign on alumacore. All vinyl w/logo plus other copy. I did and sent a bill for just over 500.00. ea. (sign only, no install).
He told me he was typically getting a sign like that (in larger markets)for 320.00.
Substrate alone costs almost 150.00. Anybody making money at these Prices?
5mm or 10mm? of course there is only a 10 buck difference between the two. 98.00 for 5mm and 107.00 for 10mm. if an intermediate vinyl such as 3m sc50 or avery a-6 the price in my area would be about 325.00 from me and i would not get the job if they were checking prices.
there are shops around here that would do that job for as little as 225.00 just to get the job. of course they would use the cheapest vinyl money could by but they would figure 75.00 a bucks profit is good. of course they don't realize that phones, rent and power eat their 75 bucks down to nothing but that is our local market.
of course you also gotta remember that the cost of living is substantially lower here in the SE than out west and up north. thus everything is cheaper. in our shop we have a saying that goes, "it is cheaper and more fun to go broke fishing than working." thus we won't work for free but at 325 on this job would result in 150 bucks per sign after materials and labor. that would make a nice 1/2 day rainy day fill in job around here. i'll take the 300 before overhead as some extra pocket change.
if i was paying rent in NYC, LA or Seattle; i would need to get the 500 bucks to make it work. if i was using h.p vinyl on them then i would need to get 450 in my market. every market is different, thus the reason pricing guides are just that, guides.
of course this supposes that i would use aluma core for anything. i abhor that stuff and there are few jobs that i have found that there is not a better material than alumacore. i can honestly say that i buy at the most one piece of the stuff on average per year and usually it is only when the customer specs it.
michael
Everyone here has a valid point but the real reason for the price drop is flat bed printing. A 4 x 8 sheet on a reasonable UV flat bed should take no longer then 15 min to RIP the file / load / print & unload. If you take away the laminate I could see these going for $250.00 with a very good labor / maerial mark up. Down to $225.00 if you have the ability to produce in bulk or are locked into contract pricing.
It also makes a difference if you are a full service electrical shop or a "vinyl" shop. We're an electrical shop and our prices are higher than the vinyl shops because we naturally have higher overhead for production and install. I'd say $500 ea is just about right for the materials and four color sign - for our area (Kitsap Peninsula, WA) anyway. We could do it for less if it's just a temp "jobsite" sign, by putting it on corex and using "banner" vinyl instead of the hp vinyl we normally use. Depends on the customer, doesn't it?
CORRECTION, it was 10mm aluma-lite substrate, cost 127.00 plus tax. Maybe some can buy it cheaper.
I too run an electrical full service co. with several trucks, a couple secretaries, 12,000 ft. shop, etc. So I have to pay someone to do vinyl cutting, application, and so on, and with me the primary sales man, I made a conscious decision years ago to concentrate on larger projects to support my company and not try to compete with the vinyl shops that started popping up in the late 80's. We do what comes throught the door, and for regular customers.
You know as well as I do that sometimes you can spend as much time talking to a customer about a 4'x 8' site sign, or even window vinyl as you can an 8,000.00 pole sign.
But still you got to make more than just a few bucks on a sign. There are direct costs that everyone has. You have sales tax, application paper, tape, cleaning solutions, even pencils, rulers. And a few dollars from every sign has to go to pay for your equipment. And thats not counting the costs Crowder mentioned earlier, (rent, utilities, etc.)
And if you are paying labor you have an additional set of costs to figure. That $15.00-20.00 an hour man needs to make you 3 times that or your wasting your time.
If you charge a thousand dollars for materials and buy a thousand dollars worth of material for that job, you are not breaking even, you are losing money.
There is a cost just for moving money through your business.
Sorry for the mild rant! We have a saying also. We don't need to practice making signs any more, lets do it for the money.
P.S. The flat bed printer sounds like a good idea.
I have been in this business for 17+ years work thru other companies - I just started my own business. I understand that there can be a lot of overhead when running a large business - but times are tough right now - give them my informtion and I will get it done to those prices.
chubbygrumpy,
where are you located at? remember every market is different. like i stated before, on alumacore which was the material in the OP i would have been 325 in the north atlanta market. with the alumalite correction that came later, i would have substituted MDO and been at 345.00.
like i said before, if the customer had been shopping prices. i would have gotten my teeth kicked in by most of the instant sign shops.
michael
I guess the answer to my original question is... some of you ARE making money at those prices, at least in the South. Not much though! But hey, if it keeps the wolf away from the door...
I think I'll have to continue as I am getting the occasional site sign, or maybe expand into the billboard business, we all know thats where the really big money is :wink:
[quote]320.00[/quote]
pffft no.
$320 is a joke I do not care how they are being produced. Sad fact the meatball makin' em probably thinks he's makin' money.
Let's hope the "depression" we are in rids us of these scabs...