User login

solvent printer problems

Posted on Mon, 26 May 2003 at 19:21



We have a SolventJet printer (converted Roland). When it is printing, the results are great. But the problems seem to come fast and furious at times. Right now it is at Roland head office getting fixed after several tech visits couldn't solve the problem. Just looking for some feedback on this particular printer or on other options. Any other would need to be able to print at least the same quality and with full solvent inks (Lyson) as ours can. Thanks.

Location of Opportunity or Item

Comments

Anonymous says: Right on, Victor! posted on: Mon, 06/02/2003 - 7:20am
Anonymous says: Reality strikes - twice! Refreshing to see such realism around here, Victor...keep up the good work. posted on: Mon, 06/02/2003 - 7:22am
Anonymous says: Victor: Let's see now; according to you the Mimaki JV3 printers use a "mild solvent" ink; somewhere between "eco-solvent" ink and "real solvent" ink? Call it anyway you see it Victor; but, the Mimaki ...

Victor:

Let's see now; according to you the Mimaki JV3 printers use a "mild solvent" ink; somewhere between "eco-solvent" ink and "real solvent" ink?

Call it anyway you see it Victor; but, the Mimaki JV3 "solvent inks" adhere to all 3M, Avery, Arlon, and Mactac UNCOATED cast and calendared adhesive backed vinyls
and many, many different manufacturers of UNCOATED PVC banner and flexface materials. We have written ICC color profiles in Onyx PS RIP for MOST of these materials. Concerning "drying" issues: If you set the correct pre-heat and post-dry temperatures on the printer (matched to media type and print resolution or multiple ink layers) then drying is not an issue.

There are those that have mentioned that Windex and Isopropol alcohol can move the solvent ink. It has not been an issue with ANY of our customers. Most every cast adhesive vinyl prints are laminated and none of our clients have complained about their banners. It just doesn't rain Windex or alcohol.

The Mimaki JV3 solvent ink printers are the BEST selling wide format solvent ink printer on todays market. But you know what Victor, the printer prospects who read these posts don't need to believe me because I am a "biased reseller"; they simply need to contact me and I will be happy to provide them a list of SATISFIED end users that would be happy to give you their opinion.

Mimaki JV3-160S (64") at $28,995.00 or JV3-250S (98") at $49,995.

Bob Gruner
www.gochromatek.com

PS - Jon Aston: Thought you had cooled your jets; but, I see you had to get your digs in. How many of those Jesters did you sell last month? Shoulda, coulda, woulda! :)

posted on: Mon, 06/02/2003 - 10:40am
Anonymous says: Bob, Since you seem to know everything you should also know that Epson does not endorse their printheads for use with "mild solvent inks". Yes, I said mild solvent. To claim these inks are anything like ...

Bob,
Since you seem to know everything you should also know that Epson does not endorse their printheads for use with "mild solvent inks". Yes, I said mild solvent. To claim these inks are anything like the solvent inks used in printers like Arizona, DGI, Mutoh Toucan, Vutek and others is simply a lie. I guess you will also deny that head clogging is a constant issue.
Have you ever seen a JV3 print at 222 sqft per hr like they claim. Of course not. Yes the heads can move that fast but there is no way they can get the inks dry at anywhere close to that speed. At shows, the best they do is around 50 sqfthr.
How about poor color gamut? Compared to real solvent printers, the JV3 can not print bold saturated colors. Bright reds, yellows and blues are pastel not vibrant. That is why they only print sample files like landscapes and blue skies. They never print files like Spiderman or other cartoon colored designs.
Not to mention the cost per square foot for inks is around $.80 not the $.25-$.30 they tell you at trade shows. At $75-$80 per 220 ml cartridge, approximately $375.00 per liter, the JV3 costs 4 times as much for inks compared to the above mentioned printers.
I strongly encourage your prospects to take you up on your claims that it can print and adhere to all the vinyls you mentioned. I have samples printed at trade shows that scratch off with my fingernail.

posted on: Mon, 06/02/2003 - 2:55pm
Anonymous says: Victor: Wow...deja vu! I've been down this road with Jon Aston already. It is truly amazing the things one will say to diss the competition. :) 1- "Epson does not endorse their printheads for use with ...

Victor:

Wow...deja vu! I've been down this road with Jon Aston already.

It is truly amazing the things one will say to diss the competition. :)

1- "Epson does not endorse their printheads for use with "mild solvent inks".

Yessir, I concur; however, please note that the piezo printheads being used in the Mimaki JV3 series printers are NOT standard Epson printheads. They are Epson piezo printheads that were modified in a joint effort by Mimaki and Epson engineers for use with "solvent ink".

2- "Have you ever seen a JV3 print at 222 sqft per hr like they claim?"

Yessir, I have; however, I would NEVER recommend printing at that speed. The print quality is poor with heavy banding. It dissappoints me when printer manufacturers advertise print speeds knowing that users would never be able to sell product generated at those specs; however, it is a marketing ploy that every single printer manufacturer uses.

Our customers generally print around 90 sq ft per hour without any apparent banding.

3- "How about poor color gamut?"

I would love to see Mimaki deliver better reds and yellows: and, in time I'm sure they will. There are third party inks already being advertised that claim improved reds and yellows. Time will tell.

We have been quite successful in creating excellent color profiles with Onyx PS RIP and all of our clients a very happy with their output.

4- "Not to mention the cost per square foot for inks is around $.80"

That is NOT true. Perhaps if you are laying two or three layers of ink, you might be able to come up with a $0.80 per sq ft cost; however, our clients are averaging about $0.35 per sq ft which is certainly acceptable for a printer designed to print no more that 80-100 sq ft per hr.

5- "I have samples printed at trade shows that scratch off with my fingernail."

LOL! Do you mean "scratch off" or "gouge out"? This has not been a complaint of any of our users.

You do not appear to actually have a JV3 printer Victor; otherwise, you would not be making such bold claims.

The Mimaki JV3 are definately not in the same class as Vutek, Nur, and Scitex. But, from a PRICE/PERFORMANCE standpoint, the Mimaki JV3 runs circles around the DGI, Arizona, and Toucan printers. And, as I said before, don't take MY word for it; call me, and I will gladly refer you to satisfied end users (the same end users who rarely post here because they are too busy making money with their JV3 printers). :)

Good printing Victor.

Bob Gruner
www.gochromatek.com

posted on: Mon, 06/02/2003 - 3:59pm
Anonymous says: "...the Mimaki JV3 runs circles around the DGI, Arizona, and Toucan printers...." I am NOT selling DGI just using but I want to know what kind of "circle" is Mimaki running around DGI?: 1. print speed? ...

"...the Mimaki JV3 runs circles around the DGI, Arizona, and Toucan printers...."

I am NOT selling DGI just using but I want to know what kind of "circle" is Mimaki running around DGI?:

1. print speed? DGI print with 80sqft/h at good quality like Mimaki
2. print quality?...yes, I accept, DGI has only 360 dpi apparently
3. print costs? DGI ink cost/sqft is $ 025...Mimaki $035
4. Nobody talk about printhead life and replacement costs...DGI XAAR printheads print without problem 80 000 sqft and costs 600 usd X 4 =2400usd...what about Mimaki?
5.DGI ink resistance?...16 months outdoor is quarateed - I tested myself and scratch resistance is very good
6. price? DGI - 1.60 m is 27 000usd and the 2.4 m is 35 000 usd

I'm realy curious about those "circles"

posted on: Mon, 06/02/2003 - 11:29pm
Anonymous says: Nicholas: Mea culpa. Poor choice of words. :) My advice to any prospective buyer is to exercise due diligence and make sure your reseller (mfg direct or VAR) thoroughly demonstrates the printer to your ...

Nicholas:

Mea culpa. Poor choice of words. :)

My advice to any prospective buyer is to exercise due diligence and make sure your reseller (mfg direct or VAR) thoroughly demonstrates the printer to your satisfaction.
Then make a decision.

Good printing.

Bob Gruner
www.gochromatek.com

posted on: Tue, 06/03/2003 - 8:28am
Anonymous says: John, Your problem is not unique. The SolventJet is notorious for problems like that and I've only talked to a couple of people that have managed to make the thing work. I've seen the JV3 print on uncoated ...

John,

Your problem is not unique. The SolventJet is notorious for problems like that and I've only talked to a couple of people that have managed to make the thing work.

I've seen the JV3 print on uncoated vinyl at about 90 sq. ft./hr. as Bob says and I have heard other good things about it. It is the least expensive true solvent printer on the market at the moment. The vibrancy does leave a little to be desired, but you need to keep in mind that this is the "entry level" solvent printer.

The DGI is an excellent true solvent printer, but resolution is fairly low. Depending on your typical viewing distance, this may not be an issue (6 - 10 ft. +). This is the next higher solvent printer above the Mimaki but below the Arizona. Color vibrancy is very good.

The Jetster is a rebranded Mutoh Falcon Outdoor and is an excellent "Eco-Solvent" printer. The drawback with these is the requirement for special medias.

Encad has a completely new technology out that is very interesting as well.

I have just completed a book on the subject:
************************************************
***Wide Format Printing: An Introduction and Buyer's Guide***
************************************************
Go to

http://wfprinting.tripod.com

to read more about it and order. Only $35.

posted on: Tue, 06/03/2003 - 8:39am
Anonymous says: Victor, We got our Solventjet 6/01 and it was an abortion for the first 4 months, we almost sent it back. Since then it has run [albeit slowly] 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. We laminate for vehicle lettering ...

Victor,
We got our Solventjet 6/01 and it was an abortion for the first
4 months, we almost sent it back. Since then it has run [albeit slowly]
8 hours a day, 6 days a week. We laminate for vehicle lettering but not
not for commercial or interior signs and have never, not once, had a
problem with ink scratching off. And Victor we don't have a service
contract because we have been servicing the machine our self since day
one. This was our first large format machine and was so sucessful for us
that we got a used DM12 last summer because the large format stuff got
better every month.
I am not a re-seller, just a sign guy with a real affection for the Solventjet
because it put my company on the road to digital and away from the lower
priced labor intensive vinyl cut, weed, and tape jobs that WAS the staple
of my business.
Just my 2 cents...... Good luck to all

posted on: Tue, 06/03/2003 - 9:26pm
Anonymous says: problem I hear about the Mimaki is the inks are flat. check out our website www.signware.com and if we can help you - contact us at sales@signware.com posted on: Wed, 06/04/2003 - 11:55am

Did you enjoy this article? Click here to subscribe to the magazine.