We are bidding on a sign package for the first time and have some questions for all you experienced folks. Any input is appreciated.
* How do you handle message schedule ( we were told that it is a spread sheet of the content, location and other specs of all the signs)? other than do things manually, is there a faster way to layout the signs in Illustrator from the Excel or FileMaker file that we'll receive from the architect? or can any wholesale fabricator can do this for us?
* Can the wholesale fabricator add the braille to the layout (over 1000 ADA signs)?
* Who should be held responsible for complying with all above codes, the client/building owner or developer, the architect, the interior designer or the sign company? We would be expected to provide recommendations, but does that mean that we are legally accountable if any discrenpancies occur?
Thanks. James.
James,
We are a wholesale fabricator of ADA Signage. We can handle all shop drawings, layouts, and message schedules. Let us know if you would like a quote.
David Meriwether
Marketing
Sign International, Inc.
www.SignInternational.com
James Give us a call we can provide You with drawings samples and install on any project that You have or may be looking at.
Peter
904 307 1827James T. wrote:
> We are bidding on a sign package for the first time and have
> some questions for all you experienced folks. Any input is
> appreciated.
>
> * How do you handle message schedule ( we were told that it is
> a spread sheet of the content, location and other specs of all
> the signs)? other than do things manually, is there a faster
> way to layout the signs in Illustrator from the Excel or
> FileMaker file that we'll receive from the architect? or can
> any wholesale fabricator can do this for us?
>
> * Can the wholesale fabricator add the braille to the layout
> (over 1000 ADA signs)?
>
> * Who should be held responsible for complying with all above
> codes, the client/building owner or developer, the architect,
> the interior designer or the sign company? We would be expected
> to provide recommendations, but does that mean that we are
> legally accountable if any discrenpancies occur?
>
> Thanks. James.
James,
If you are still needing help or would like an additional quote, please contact us at 800-235-2378. You may also visit our website at http://www.bestsigns.com
Concerning your spreadsheet question, we use a software program that can import the text from a spreadsheet into layout form. The resulting files can then be exported into Illustrator. We routinely add braille to high volume jobs such as yours.
Best regards,
John
I'm going to add to Rick's message. Technically, the building owner is legally responsible for compliance. However, we all know that if the "expert," that is the designer or fabricator doesn't let the owner know that he/she is doing something illegal, and the building owner is sued, they will, in turn, sue the "expert," whom they hired to advise them.
Architects tend to not want to hear from sign people, and unfortunately, most of them either don't understand the ADA sign guidelines and corresponding state building codes, or deliberately ignore them. I have just spent most of the last two weeks in Sacramento going over codes line by line, as our state Access Committee tries to make them clear enough so that they cannot be misinterpreted!
I would also suggest that if you are going to go into the ADA sign business, you make it a point to actually find out what makes a READABLE sign for a person who is blind and visually impaired! Just following the current codes will not necessarily produce a readable sign, and there is much out there, unfortunately, that is wasted money on the part of the owner, presuming the owner actually cares if someone can read the sign.
I know I've been absent from this board for a while, and I apologize. Luckily Rick is here to take my place! I'll try to check in more often.
For those who have been asking, the new guidelines we wrote back in 1996 have finally made it all the way to the Department of Justice! The Access Board is now using the new rules as equivalent facilitation, and the Department of Transportation has already adopted the new guidelines. For states that use the current ANSI (1998 and/or 2003) the new ADA-ABA is essentially the same. But in any case, the new rules go a lot further toward making readable signs, so following them is certainly a "best practice."
Sharon Toji
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Everyone who is involved with ADA sign projects -- which is actually every project in the United States, just about, dealing with interior signs -- needs to be familiar with the new ADA rules. They will be legally enforceable on March 15, 2012, and can be used right now. Most of them do not conflict in any way with the current rules, and are actually what you would call "best practice," anyway.
Although it is the owner who is responsible to follow the law, you had better believe that if the owner is sued, he or she will be wanting to speak to the "expert," who should be you!
Sharon Toji
Everyone who is involved with ADA sign projects -- which is actually every project in the United States, just about, dealing with interior signs -- needs to be familiar with the new ADA rules. They will be legally enforceable on March 15, 2012, and can be used right now. Most of them do not conflict in any way with the current rules, and are actually what you would call "best practice," anyway.
Although it is the owner who is responsible to follow the law, you had better believe that if the owner is sued, he or she will be wanting to speak to the "expert," who should be you!
Sharon Toji
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I am assuming that you do not normally fabricate ADA signs.
If you fab or vend it out, you should know ADA enough to know what is compliant ADA and what is bad. Even a few ADA fabricators out there have a hard time doing it right. Even if the sign package was reviewed by an ADA consultant, you should know where to find the information or you can find yourself eating 1000 ADA signs.
I have dealt with ADA in 3 different modes, as the ADA fabricator, vending it and the Architect/designer. It is "usually" the responsibility of the ADA fabricator to add the copy and the braille, but it should be reveiwed by the sign company and Architect to make sure the layouts are correct, usually you need to check everything from copy, kerning, placement to even checking the braille translations.
On the responsibility, I have seen the sign company, contractors and architect/designer eat the signs if they were bad, double check the callouts, a smart archtect/designer will have some callout making the fabricator resposible, even if the Architect/designer designed them non-compliant. Cover yourself so that everyone is responsible, or you wouls not be responsible for making signs that are not ADA compliant.If you see something non-compliant, make sure people know and then if they insist that the signs be made that way, have them sign a waiver that you would not be responsible for producing non-compliant signs or walk away from the project since the whole point of ADA signs is to make a workable sign system.
I would start getting all the ADA info you can get, maybe get into a relationship with a highly qualified vendor and/or ADA consultant until you are more comfortable with doing this all on the limited information you have.